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Hello and welcome to this edition of Social Stars. Today I'm talking to somebody really fascinating that I've come across. A gentleman called Cris Gherman, a tattoo artist in Miami. Hello Cris and welcome to my show. Thank you for having me. Thank you Alex. So Cris, I want to talk to you because you do something really fascinating. So you're a tattoo artist who has got a whole strain of something special you do, which is something called fingernail tattoos. Now, I know nothing about fingernail tattoos. Me neither. That makes two of us. Haha. OK, I guess that means you're self-taught then. Yeah. So let's talk about...as a tattoo artist, how did you evolve into putting the tattoo on a fingernail? How did that start and come about? I was tattooing shoes actually. I was mentally thinking about different mediums and I was looking at my nails. I'm like maybe... let me try it and I tried it on my nails and it stayed and I kept doing it. So everything was by pure curiosity nothing else, nothing planned. It just happened overnight. I was just working with different mediums as I always try to incorporate new things into my work. Obviously. I'm a tattoo artist. I paint, I do structure, I have an art degree that I finished in classic animation. So anything that comes from art fascinates me and I think there will always be more to do than what everybody else does. I mean, it's just trying you know, a happy accident. I should say. Now, I wish I could tell you a lie that I was tattooing shoes and then the needle jumped on my nail and I did a tattoo. No, it wasn't like that. I was scared. I was OK, should I try it? I don't have a...on nails apart from everybody else, right? I was very cautious in the beginning because one little mistake can do a lot of damage. And again, we're talking about needles, ink and so on. But then again, I have a lot of experience with other mediums and needles and machines, so that was pretty easy. Right. So just the first time when I did it, I still have some... you see it? There you go. First time I did it, of course the mental trick plays on us, because we all have some issues with our nails, you know, we got some splinters under the nail... even now one of the questions most people ask me, 'Does it hurt?' Or the stigma on the tattoo, people commenting? Oh, this must hurt, actually doesn't hurt at all. Now, I haven't done any mistakes yet. Obviously it can hurt a lot I guess right, but my first internal fear was about the pain, because I mean again, I'm talking needle, and I don't know anything about it. But it was just straightforward, easy, peasy lemon squeezy. So you are using exactly the same product that you would tattoo the skin with...the same needle, the same exact technique, but straight onto the fingernail. Absolutely what changes is the way I tattoo it; the speed, the accuracy, because you're talking about 0.05 millimeter, which is the margin of error. So having a little bit of knowledge about it... the tools we work with; that did help. I definitely don't suggest anybody trying it without having a clue. Only because if you don't know what you're doing on fake skin, then on skin, I can see how something bad can happen. That's what helped me. Yeah, there's loads of safety issues. I mean, I think it would be important to say here that absolutely I wouldn't recommend anybody...I don't recommend anybody uses nail products onto the nail without being trained. So definitely I wouldn't expect anybody to try this at home on any level. So, what's it essentially doing to the nail plate? I'm guessing... is it scratching the surface or is it... how's it actually working? Absolutely. It does leave a mark. OK, so the whole trick when I did it the first time, obviously with the cautions and the fear in my head and on my mind. I start playing a little bit and it didn't stick. So obviously I needed to go deeper. Now every nail is different on every person. Not every nail can be tattooed and even my nails are different. You know some of them are thick. I guess the way I grab stuff or whatever. It's more about contact with other stuff. As one is thicker than the other. So said, the first pass I did a little bit and nothing sticks to it. It's like you see the little scratch on the nail, it's a mark of a scratch but there's nothing there. And then the hardest part is to leave that permanent mark, which when I'm saying permanent, obviously until the nail grows and without penetrating the nail bed and have to stay equally perfect to the last cut and that's skills obviously technical skills. That's nothing else. Nothing more. It's not magic. It's just having all this experience, 28 years of tattooing. Does help. Again I tattoo a lot from glass to plastic to you name it, I'm doing it. I'm using the machines, the tools I should say. I'm using the tools to leave a mark right? To leave the ink and whatever I'm using, now on some parts, glass or plastic I'm using without any... ...scratches. So I'm using the tools accordingly. I even got fake nails to...I was thinking about an idea. You know to tattoo fake nails and sell them. It doesn't work. Again, I don't know anything about fake nails. So probably there's different types of fake nails. The ones I got, I just bought a box of them and they're pure plastic. And apart from the needle getting bent, the ink stays in. But every time it's on something like this, it's very accurate, very clear, the needle gets super bent. Now the difference from that one to a real nail, that's organic matter. So it's more natural. So on the plastic nail, pretty much like plastic, the mark is there, actually the ink is there. However, the needle does break or bend super fast. So it's not profitable in any way to tattoo fake nails. I mean probably, I could but I'd spend a lot of money on needles to deliver something, which on the fingernail I can do with 1 needle. I do it for training, for my own purpose, even with the nails whatever I do, it's pretty much for my own purpose, to learn to be more accurate at my job. So I'm using all this, for the style of tattooing, I do, I do a lot of fingernails. Which are extremely hard, and there's a stigma in the industry, that fingernails don't last. Obviously they are done by people that don't have a clue or did not persist to learn how to do it correctly. So for me, it's like a weird circle. For some people it looks intricate... oh, this is amazing. I'm using it to get better at my job. Not to get better at tattooing nails. It's just another medium that drags me into the perfection of my trade. So do you have clients that regularly want this from you or is this something you enjoy particularly on yourself? I do it on myself. I don't have clients. I've been asked a few times and pretty much I refuse, but first of all, my prices are pretty high and not because they're my prices for nails. My prices as a tattoo artist are different standards for my quality of work. And every time somebody asked me about the nails prices, I give them the same price, which I do for my tattoos. And of course, then the mental health of those people, with the money, they think well it's only a nail I can go to a salon. I can do it for the fraction of the price. Let me understand... you want me to do a job that I charge this... but to charge you less because the nail lasts less...oh, but it's not a permanent tattoo.... like yeah, that's the whole point. So it's pretty much, it's a weird way to get clients. I did tattoo my friends. If a client says, 'do my nails', yes i'll look at the nail and if it can be tattooed. I'll do it. Not a problem, but usually the people that approach me they will have... again I don't know how much it costs in a nail salon. But they have the same mentality... of you know, like 'oh, I want to buy a bicycle, but I want a Ferrari'. If you have a bicycle and a Ferrari , they are 2 different things. So that's the mentality, they think nail tattoos are some glitter on the nails... like no, hold on a second, we talk about bicycle and Ferrari. One has an engine, the other one is nothing. It's pretty much what I always tell people, if you want to get a tattoo you don't go and buy a poster. Well, I go to a shop and I buy a poster... look at my tattoo. No, that's a poster. That's a copy, of a copy, of a copy on a piece of paper. A tattoo, I can do it or whatever you choose to... it's permanent, it involves time. It involves a lot of experience to get to the point of being that good that you can demand money. Right. So it's the same thing with nail tattoos, my experience so far is I think people are confusing a poster with a tattoo. They are confusing glitter on the nail with actual physical tattoo, with physical tools, with physical skills and knowledge for that specific thing. The other problem is the margin of error... people are thinking they pay money for something, but they don't understand the background to it. My joke is, you go to a shop to buy milk. You don't understand that the milk is coming from a cow and it's been transported there and the price reflects this. You don't get the point, you think the milk just appears in the shop? Look it's so cheap... well, hold on, the cows - what cows? Yeah, that's the problem. So for the clients it's pretty interesting. I did get more interest from stars who wanted to do it for specific photoshoots for specific stuff, but that's only because they can afford it or they understand the mission, why they want it. So how long on average do you spend on a nail when you're covering it like that? Tattooing is for about one hour. One nail takes about one hour. Yeah. Yeah, again. I don't do simple stuff because that means I wouldn't learn anything. For me, the purpose is to do something to become better at something else, right? So as a tattoo artist and an artist and a sculptor and all these things, I notice that you have a very massive following, a lot of people are following your work. So how have you found that social media has helped you as an artist in all your different media? Oh definitely social media did help me one million percent. I think everybody has. Don't forget the tattoo industry has been a very closed in a box industry, right? It wasn't wasn't so socialized. It wasn't so open. And back in the time, sadly I should say, to be known or to make it somewhere, you need to send your pictures to a magazine. The magazine, if they like you or your friends with them or you have to pay something, they may post your picture. Now that magazine, may not be international, it may only be a few editions. So the whole thing, let's say if I do a tattoo, it may make it in a magazine in a year or 2, maybe, maybe not, depends because it was very kind of a gangstery. I should say in a very bad way. Everything was... who you know... how you know... if you know people you had more advantages, now with social media you can do whatever, you can live whatever, you can be whatever, doesn't matter the time. I finish that and I post it up and guess what? Somebody across the world is going to see it. But you do seem to have done it successfully on your own Cris, haven't you? You've got a huge following that you've created and amassed yourself, haven't you? Yes, Yes. I mean, I've been in the industry way before the internet. I've been in the industry since when everybody was bad in the industry. I'm talking artistically-wise. lt's like one of the old school guys I should say. I've been at the beginning of social media. I didn't approach it correctly, because I didn't believe in it. I should have bought Bitcoin when it was 50 cents, i guess! I didn't. I didn't jump on Instagram or Facebook at the beginning. I didn't. I had my YouTube channel. I didn't start posting videos until very late in my life. I could have been rich now doing that stuff. So said, unfortunately I missed a lot, but I did work every single follower, every single thing to my work. It kind of pays off, seeing it, observing it now. I see huge difference... let's say with nail tattoos, I post my nail tattoos and it's like 11 million views. I think I have 50 million views on my nails, right, which is insane. I don't have 11 million views on any of my tattoos. But, I have all of hate, let's say from the community. I can't believe these nail tattoos on this and listen, look at my art? Do you see anything with likes and views? No, why? Because Instagram hasn't seen anything like this, the algorithm, the little robots in the background. They didn't see that, so they promote it. That's the issue with a lot of artists today, only because they start doing nice tattoos. They don't get the amount of likes hey would think. But then again, because always there's a debate on the internet. I'm like listen, I did your work 10 years ago, the internet has already seen all of this. I've done it, you've done it, everybody's done it, because you're doing it for a 10 years... there's nothing new, you don't have to impress me. Don't get me wrong. Your work is phenomenal, but the internet, the little robot algorithm has seen it. It's seen another 10 million Cris Gherman's, it's seen another 20 billion Cris Ghermans you are not unique anymore. Now if you had started 15 years ago doing tattoos, you would have been unique. So that's the thing with the internet. Let's say, where we are at the moment. And now we need to trick the internet with algorithms, which changes all the time. But that's again a misconception of the way people do use the internet now only because you do amazing work, you posted something that somebody did 10 years ago. That thing is gone. Now if you really look everything is super polished, super... you go to watch a YouTube video, everything is fake, everything. It's like... now you see kids doing videos better than the producer 20 years ago. Better than Spielberg. What the heck am I watching here ? Now the internet wants that quality right? And even for me, it's very hard to catch up, to keep track on it. Because it's a lot of work. Now I'm looking at the new tattoo artists that coming in and they have a gang of people behind them. One is filming, one is editing, one is making the music, one is... so now you see them like, oh, I know why have all these likes, don't get me wrong, the work is phenomenal, but you put a lot of work into it. What I'm saying, not necessarily you, you have a team behind it, that figure out how it works. Probably for next few years, it's going to work like that. So the internet does help, still helps, but it's very hard to keep up with it. For instance for myself, I'm lazy, I don't like to spend time filming, employing people to film something to show the public... look at the tattoo I did today. I have to employ 50 people to show my work to you guys. So, you know, you can 'like' it because what happened is, everybody may like my work but Instagram doesn't show it, the social media doesn't show it because it's not up to standards. And that was a weird ride... before it was easier. Now, I don't think so. It's easy. to be heard by the internet, but it's it's very fair to everybody else. If you want to make it faster and use the internet. Just use your brain, don't sleep and really work because it does help you. It does help you... the more you do, the more it helps, keep on learning how to do videos to edit, everything. It does help a lot. I've done it over and over and over. I have my YouTube channels. I do tutorials, but it gets exhausting to be a one man show. Unfortunately, it doesn't get easier. But for the new kids on the block or the new people that want to get on the internet, because now they come with different ideas, it's easier to get something and to copy and paste as a model. For me, I'm getting older. And my mind, I'm getting more... llke I don't really care about all the 'likes', let's say. Because I know how much work I have to put in it, am I going to spend all day long to get 1000 followers or 1000 likes? I don't know man, I'm not getting any younger. I prefer to go get drunk. I prefer to go to the beach. I prefer to enjoy nature. I'm not 20 years old, now if I was 20 years old or 18. I'd be like holy moley. Give me 5 years. Let me go fast. Let me learn everything. Let me get some education on filming, let me invest some money in equipment. Let me do it myself, because it's goinf to help me be a better artist. Right, and that's what it is. I do a lot of paintings. I spend my time being mentally productive, not social media productive, I should say. I don't know if it's a good thing though, but for me, it helps me... I'm not getting any younger. So my day learning another program, another editing program is just I don't know if I need one when I'm 70 years old, you know! Then you came up with an idea that very few people are doing, to tattoo a fingernail. That was the moment the little robot in the back said 'that's interesting'. No. Yes and said, let's start following Cris Gherman and start showing people, because that was the thing that's different I guess. Yes, yes. But I learned about First of all, algorithms change all the time, but I did learn this...I did different things on the internet with some stuff... I came up with weird, cool ideas. I invented something, but also it is the algorithm. ... on Instagram... it's learning from us. I'm not saying anything bad about it. I'm guessing that is demanding for us Tto become more productive, to give something, to give you something back. I think that's why it's fun. I mean, I don't know what's going on. It's about how you make it, how you plan it, how you do everything, which for the new generation, because unfortunately we can't run away from what we have, for the new generation it's good. They need to put their heads together and start learning or employ somebody to teach them how to run faster. I mean, I spend a lot of money on education. I have a music degree. I have all this stuff I paid from my own money. Which I'm not using, but somehow mentally it helped me to do something else. Right, so for the newcomers out there, just learn. Get better than everybody else and see the pattern and... just because, as an artist you will use it. Regardless again, tattooing nails is for me getting better on doing tattoo fingers. That's my vocation. I think it's very hard on nails, but It's super easy for me. Right personally, because it's something even... well the quality is phenomenal. But it grows out. So you have an unlimited canvas. Now when you do something for life, finger tattoos or whatever, there's no room for error or mistake very few people does that professionally, I mean...something to last and that's why the stigma in the industry is 'oh you finger tattoos don't last like, yeah, because they've been done by bad artists, they didn't train. I've been training 5 years for this. I've been practicing 5 years. I've been doing stuff for the last 5 years. Every day, I try different stuff different styles, speeds and machines. It keeps going and going and going. And I'm doing nail tattoos only to get better at something else. Right, it's about learning and the older we get, the more passion we lose towards learning something only to 'fit in', we want to enjoy life, but when you are young it's better to spend time and money on education, on you becoming better as an artist, but for the new generation, that's your investment. For the new kids spend less money on new shoes every month, investment in good education. Do a course on Photoshop or on... now, they have this AI technology, spend 5 months on learning it, and that's going to build up your new career so you can understand how the algorithm works. They need to build up their knowledge bank don't they and make sure they're doing it in increments, stepping up stepping up? Whereas people like ourselves are very happy with what we know and what we're using and how we've integrated it into what we were already doing. How we're evolving, it's 2 different evolutions isn't it? Absolutely and I think it should it should be like that. I'm not pretending to be 16 years old. I don't want to dress like that, I don't want to pretend to be, I don't want that stuff. I don't want my videos polished to that level of...this is new kids on the block, you're selling for you guys. I'm not complaining. I think if that's how we're going, the new generation should pay attention and should follow the steps. To know how to disconnect. Take it as a business, because it's fun. It's fun to be creative. But to become a lifestyle and to pretend to show others that, that's you are, I think that's wrong, what we are we missing and what are we doing wrong in general, right? I see how artistically we've become extremely advanced, extremely advanced, because the more you know, the more we put in practice and the better we get. So that's how nail tattoos... I think the internet got a glance of it... Instagram saw that - and said 'what the heck is going on here?'. Because obviously there's an algorithm and patterns they read and it hasn't been presented yet. On Instagram with all those billions of tonnes of megabytes of data. They haven't seen that movement, on that thing because it zooms in. We can't fight the robots, we just have to become like them. We cannot fight the robots. We have to become the robot. That's the quote of the day. We can't fight the robots. I'm going to say thank you very much for talking to me today and sharing your fantastic viewpoint and your perspective and sharing this whole fantastic art form going onto nails that we weren't even aware of before I came across you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a nice, beautiful, amazing, super weekend.